urban design framework plan for the Inchicore Works

AuthorMessage DateMessage
Alan C 07/04/2010I got a letter from Irish Rail saying that they and Dublin City Council are working on an urban design framework plan for the Inchicore Works as part of the Railway Order for Dart underground.

I guess this is the reason for the delay in the DART project. The current proposals do seem to be in conflict with the Inchicore/Kilmainham Urban Framework plans and their answer seems to be to write their own.

Its a bit strange, adding the design of a new urban quarter to the Dart project is really straying from the objectives.
And they could just have designed the DARTu line using the already adopted area plans.

Anyway we will have lovely plans for lots of offices/residential/leisure/commercial buildings on the Inchicore Works site.

I presume being a council plan this is open to democratic means of objection and input.
Do our local councillers even know about this yet?
Fiona Mc08/04/2010Sounds like the Railway Estate will be a construction site for the next 20 years!
Jo08/04/2010Hi Alan - interesting - there's no mention in the Draft Development Plan of Irish Rail's plans in Inchicore - the Underground stops at Heuston. We pointed this out to the City in March. Maybe this is a sudden attempt by Irish Rail to rectify that, which will come into the plan too late for public engagement?? Another plan for Inchicore - how many are there now?
Alan C08/04/2010Hi Jo,

I had pointed out to Irish Rail in my own submission that their plans were in conflict with the Inchicore/Kilmainham area plan, in particular that the Area Plan invisiges development focused around the village core and gateways to the village. The Irish Rail DART plans as they stand are in conflict with this and would damage the village core by attracting much needed development awar from it.

Their response is to write their own plans which is a bit like planning backwards. Anway the new Area plan for the Inchicore Works is owned by the Council and I suppose that means it will be democratically adopted by councellors at some stage. Central government can direct the City Manager to draw up this plan, but the plan itself will need to be accepted by councellors and I expect there will also be public consultation but I'm not sure.
It's probably time to start writing/phoning local councellors.

What Irish Rail said exactly was:
"Your comments mostly related to the local area framework plans (for Inchicore/Kilmainham) and that the station location should be located in Inchicore Village.
As a project team we are liaising with DCC and local community groups and residents. We are conscious that there is a desire for the new station location to compliment development plans for the area. this matter will be addressed in the EIS that will accompany the Railway Order Application.
An urban design framework plan for the Inchicore Works site will form part of this submission"
Jo08/04/2010I understand their plan was being prepared by Murray O'Laoire, who unfortunately no longer exist. So what is happening there, who knows? My feeling is that development plans in Inchicore have to address the heart of the village first, and deal with the many issues there, bring more life into the core, and not suck it away. I am not convinced that IR understand the meaning of consultation either, their idea of this process is a one-way exchange.
John Farrelly08/04/2010I asked several times why the station could not be located in the Village and every time some fool told me that it was not possible from an Engineering point of view, which of course is total rubbish. I wonder did the Consultants for the Inchicore Works identify that this was possible? There would appear to be little point in putting together Local Area Plans if large developments like the DART Underground come along and therefore the Are Plan is re-written!
Alan C08/04/2010Hi John,

I also wrote to IR (via Sean Ardagh) and got a response from them on that aswell, and the CEO of Irish Rail wrote to me saying the same thing. "Technically not possable to have the station in Inchicore Village". This is obviously not true and disengineous.

I think it's about time they properly considered this option as they have avoided it so far clearly favouring a station on their own land.

It's very discouraging when the CEO of Irish Rail gives disengenious replies clearly doggedly sticking to their own agenda which is way outside the objectives of the DART project.

I also would like to know if the OTB Consultants have looked at alternative station locations??
D08/04/2010Hi Alan,
I've been reading your posts. Do you live in the CIE works? You must have missed the most recent CIE Residents Association/Inchicore on Track public meeting. Inchicore on Track is a committee of the CIE Residents Association. There will be another public meeting coming soon. It was not part of the brief from Inchicore on Track to OTB Engineering to investigate realigining the Dart route so that the the Inchicore station is in the village. Even just commissioning an engineering firm to investigate such a relocation would be an highly expensive and complicated exercise. It's my personal view that a dart station in the Works and the associated Master Plan for the Works is preferable to a station in the centre of the village. All contributions are welcome. Hopefully you can make it to the next oublic meeting. If you want to get in touch with Inchicore on Track, John Beck is the Chair. See www.iot.ie for details and the latest news from Inchicore on Track.
John Farrelly09/04/2010Hi D,

I cant see how a station that is a long way from the Village would benefit the rest of the community. I thought about joining IOT but it appears to serve only the needs of the CIE Residents, a DART station called "Inchicore" should of course be built in the Village, any planner not associated with IE with recognise that.
Alan C09/04/2010I agree with John.
Thanks for the info D, but I don't live in the CIE estate so I was not invited to the residents meetings.
I can see why the CIE residents might like to see a station in the CIE estate, but I suspect the wider community might have different views on that.

John you are absolutely right, a station approx 1km from the village does not benefit the wider community, and actually has a detremental impact on the village itself and how it is connected to its environs.

We need a proper campaign for a station in the Village as Irish Rail are doggedly sticking to their own agenda.
Jo09/04/2010Hi - there is a website that is part of a campaign for a station in the village. This is the link - http://real-dublin.com/text/301.html. The proposed location of the station serves Irish Rail workers only, and any people who may or may not be living in the new area. The Railway Order application is due in at the end of June now, and there is 6 weeks after that to make submissions on it.
Planners need to have a look at the vacant apartment blocks in the village before we start planning for more. Look at Adamstown and it's vacancy rates as an example of a train station build with at a new development.
How will the village cope if more life is sucked out of it again? There are challenges in even getting a few houses built in St Michael's at the moment.
LH12/04/2010Hi, the Dart Underground will revolutionise the train service to Adamstown; the trains will go directly to several city centre stations, including the central business district, and will link seamlessly with the dart network.
Jo12/04/2010I thought we were talking about keeping life in the village centre, (see the Tribune on Sunday for current IR plans for the Kildare Route) not about catching trains to Adamstown
LH13/04/2010Hi there, you're correct- the discussion topic being on the urban framework plan for the Inchicore works - posts about the Adamstown station are a bit off topic. Perhaps I could make a suggestion of how the Adamstown station should be viewed in the context of an urban framework plan for the Inchicore works. The point being that the full potential of the Adamstown station is far from being realised in the absence of completed the dart underground project. One of the complexities regarding planning in Inchicore is that the geographical spread of Inchicore is such that there are several distinct retail centres each deserving attention. Lets not forget that Inchicore extends westwards past the sarsfield road railway bridge.
Alan C13/04/2010LH: Adamstown will benefit from the DARTu project no matter where the Inchicore station is located. The discussion is not on preventing DARTu, its about planning it correctly. If Irish Rail had engaged with the community properly the plans would be more advanced at this stage and these issues would be addressed.

The Inchcore area is dis-connected and there is a need to centralise development in the village core as envisaged but the local area plan. This is precisely why Inchicore Station should be located underground in the village. I am a supporter of DARTu but it does need to be planned correctly to get the best from it and it would be wrong to damage an urban village when there is no need to do this.
Placing a DART station 1km from the village and building a new urban quater on top of it would be damaging to Inchicore Village, and is not necessary.

I think anyone who feels Irish Rail have not heard their views should email them:
dartunderground@irishrail.ie
LH13/04/2010Hi Alan, The Inchicore local area plan is out of date. Planning in Ireland has moved on. We are entering the era of upmost importance in terms of reducing our carbon footprint there and is over 70 acres of land in the CIE Works that can be utilised to achieve this aim. I fully support any initiatives to revitalise the area of Inchicore that you are referring to as the "village" (get rid of the wig shops etc) - but lets be realistic - there will not be a dart station in the "village". The full potential of the dart station would not be realised in the "village". The inchicore local area plan will be modified to take into account of the exciting new opportunities offered by the proposal of a dart station in the cie works. This Works framework development plan will be a 15 to 30 year vision not just for us but for our children and grandchildren. So much has been learnt about bad planning in the past that this time we have a real opportunity to get it right.
Alan C 13/04/2010Hi LH
Firstly, it's great to be having some local debate on these important issues.

However, I share your view that the DARTu project is good for Dublin, and that planning has moved on. But the Inchicore Area plan was adopted in 2008 and was intended to be in place for more than a couple of years (more like a couple of decades)

My view is that planning has moved on from constructing lifeless new mixed used sites in favor of densifying suitable centers and complimenting existing services and infrastructure.
This is the most sustainable way forward.
I dont see why the Inchicore Works cant be developed in a complimentary to way to the Inchicore Area plan, would the residents and workers of this new quarter not benefit from being beside a vibrant village with its own Dart station? Not to mention the Lucan Luas line which skirts around the site and would need to be integrated aswell.

A station in the Village would have a greater catchment area as it would server the Inchicore Works as well as the wider Inchicore area.